Minimal or full desktop?

Besides the lack of a preinstalled package manager, is linaro ubuntu a minimal or a full desktop? Where is a list of prelinstalled packages?

I was disappointed with linaro ubuntu which was preinstalled on my pengpod tablet. I would consider it a minimal desktop. Linaro lacked an archive manager, Gparted, xfburn, libre office, system monitor, bit torrent client, irc, scanner, etc. Though Linaro had a preinstalled package manager, I didn't want to trouble shoot problems installing numerous packages that should have been preinstalled.

 

It has enough to function, such as archive manager, Gimp, chromium, netsurf, open jdk 6&7bluefish editor, code blocks IDE... Its quite easy to install additional programs as well. Its not fully mature yet, and the desktop has some graphical glitches / lag

If you are looking to just run it in a desktop environment, I have had better experience with the Debian port here:
http://www.udoo.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=251

 

Linaro is a lighter version of ubunto that is meant for the ARM processor. The desktop, or windows manager is a seperate item.
On the full desktop x86/amd64 Ubuntu version the windows manager is called unity, as i recall the windows manager for Linaro is called LDM. there is also lxde but i think that is the one used on the arm version of Debian.

Now all of that is irrelevant to your other questions. UDOO can run all of those items you mentioned you just have to install them. The easiest way to do that is to start by installing the package manager.. this was supposed to have been added to the 1.3 release for UDOO image but i guess it will be 1.4. To do this you run the following from a terminal window

Code:

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install synaptic

then under the applications | others menu you should find the synaptic

Using Synaptic you can install pretty much everything you listed that isnt already there assuming there is already a compiled version of it in the repositories. The system monitor and archive manager should already be there. You can use Synaptic to enable additional repositories to ensure you are reaching as many as you can, There are a few conversations here about repositories and using the package manager.

Also keep in mind that the UDOO is meant as an embedded style development platform and as such is not intended to serve as a workstation with all those packages installed by default. Its best to only include the core components to keep the image small, and then you can install only whats needed. Most people are not going to want office applications and such on here, many dont even want the windows manager

 

I am considering purchasing the Udoo Dual Basic for word processing. I was disappointed that the Ben NanoNote was preinstalled with angstrom which is useless for word processing. I have been waiting 1 1/2 years for a board to be developed that can easily connect to a lapdock and has word processing software, such as Abiword or libre office, to use as a word processor.

The Udoo Dual Basic neither has ethernet nor wifi. Essentially, it would be similar to running Ubuntu Privacy Remix (UPR). UPR does not load ethernet, wifi, bluetooth and IR modules. Unfortunately, UPR isn't developed for ARM.

Because Udoo Dual Basic doesn't have ethernet and wifi, I won't be able to download packages. So, to rephrase my question, what word processing packages are preinstalled in Linaro? Is Abiword at least preinstalled? Printer and scanner drivers? Scanning package?

Is there a link to a list of preinstalled packages in Linaro?

If I decide to purchase a second board for use to solely connecting to the internet (similar to Ubuntu Privacy Remix dual booting with Tails), is there a preinstalled firewall in the menu and IP tables?

Does Linaro for the Udoo Quad being released next week have the identical preinstalled packages as the Udoo dual?

 

Thanks for listing the preinstalled packages. Even more of a minimalistic desktop than I feared. I have been a member of Linux for small ARM devices for 1.5 years. I held off purchasing ARM devices due to either no linux available or no graphical linux desktop available or minimalistic desktop. Or no future development due to end of short life due to too quick development of next ARM processor.

I will hold off purchasing Udoo until a full desktop is developed, if ever. How would I know? I hope if Udoo has a full desktop release that there will be a press release.

At the very least, linaro ubuntu needs Abiword, Disk Utility or Gparted, a firewall GUI and printer and scanner drivers.

 

As others have said, you can install whatever you want/need... The reason they don't do this is to keep the image size smaller so we all aren't having to download 45GB SD card images... If you want those extras, just open the command line, use the commands listed above to install Synaptec, and then have at it to get whatever you want/need to fulfill what YOU feel is a "full desktop environment".

You have to remember that not everyone is planning to use this device for the same things you are... Personally, I plan to use Robot OS (ROS) on it, others want to use Processing, others will want to do totally other things altogether. We can't all get everything we want on the board at the start or we'd need huge drives hooked up to have it all come pre-installed, and then we'd all complain about all the "extra crap" installed that we each don't need/want.

So, I would say that what's there is a perfectly FUNCTIONAL desktop environment, with limited supporting applications installed, ready for you to add whatever you need/want to suit you.

And why the desire for the Basic if it's obviously limiting what you can do? You know you COULD just plug in a USB wifi adaptor to get connectivity to install packages...

Honestly, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill, complaining for something that frankly is kind of pointless... Just because the regular dual HAS Wifi+Ethernet doesn't mean you have to ENABLE those except when you need them.

 

The packages I recommend preinstalling are preinstalled in almost every linux distro. They are basic for a desktop.

Almost every time I installed packages via synaptic package manager, after rebooting there are error messages. I couldn't fix them. I had to reinstall Fedora. I also paid a geek to install one wifi driver. He couldn't do it. I paid another geek to install skype in Fedora. He couldn't do it and corrupted Fedora. Hence, I had to reinstall Fedora.

Hence, I use large distros such as Korora (Fedora remix), PCLinuxOS Full Monty, Knoppix DVD and Ultimate Edition.

Furthermore, even if I was capable of install packages from package managers without error messages, I don't want to go online to do it. My linux boxes are being cracked. Going online will give crackers an easy method to tamper with my filesystem and personal files. Hence, the need for the equivalent of Ubuntu Privacy Remix on a open source hardware to protect my personal files.

 

i will add to this a bit more.
First off, there are many options for you to accomplish your goal with UDOO or with other platforms. While at this point i am partial to UDOO you have to remember what you are looking to do is actually far from what this board is meant for. If you really just want a word processing/office platform you are better off with a used chromebook or something (at the prices of an UDOO). Boards like the UDOO are meant for development, robotics, programming, educations, etc. Not as a desktop replacement even tho they can do this stuff. Any ARM based dev board like this is going to carry the same minimalist design. And there is a reason, the possible use cases vary so far, most companies releasing these are only adding the basic framework which allows end users/consumers to add only what they want. ARM based systems like these are not overflowing with excess resources like a common desktop and as such users/consumers chose only the parts 'they' want. If companies pre-loaded all that other stuff most consumers would complain that its 'bloated'. some people even complained that the UDOO starts to a desktop by default, as many dont even want to use a GUI. (i like the gui but would prefer to start to a shell and start the GUI when i want it)

Now lets but that aside and look at your options.
With UDOO you can still go with an UDOO Basic, add a USB WiFi adapter for $15 USD and install anything you want. At that point you might as well just get the UDOO Dual as you will be at the same price and many more features.
But here you are at a $115 development platform that you want to use for word processing. (read.. overkill)

If you are ok spending 100-200 get a used chromebook as i mentioned before, if you are looking to minimize cost, get a raspPi , connect to your lapdock.. as im sure you are aware that is a proven method, and then add the office stuff. It will be slow but will run them. If you want more power you can step up and look at either the Beaglebone Black ($45USD) or the PCDunio ($50-65) The PCDuino v2 includes WiFi and the Linaro images comes with the office applications you are refering too built in. its cheaper and capable, but to be fair notably less powerful or flexible than the UDOO. But as noted you dont really need the power or the addition of the Arduino DUE based SAM3X chip.

 

Exactly. While these can be used as lightweight desktops, they are NOT meant to be anywhere near as powerful or extensive as your typical Linux desktop system. They can be used as such in a pinch, but that's not the point of these small SOC ARM boards.

 

The specifications of open source hardware should include detailed specifications of the open source software such as preinstalled packages.

Far easier to remove unwanted preinstalled packages than to install them. Larger distros are not slower than minimalist distros if the preinstalled packages are not running at start up.

I considered a beaglebone black but reading its forum disclosed that it does not have a full graphical desktop.

I will check out PCDuino v2. Thanks for recommending it.

Chromebook is not open source hardware. I would have to remove the embedded wifi and bluetooth which are difficult to identify and destroy by heating it with a solder and scratching it. I have broken keyboards by disassemblying netbooks in attempt to identify and remove bluetooth.

An ARM development boards will be my only linux boxes.

Apparently, raspberry pi, and possibly PCDuino v2, is the only ARM device that does have a full desktop (Pibang and Kali). I purchased a pi and lapdock last month. I don't need speed.

So, why my interest in Udoo? As a backup. Raspberry pi's hardware is already old. I am concerned it may reach end of life soon.

 

neither is the Raspberry Pi

RasPi hardware was old the day it was released. Its an old Broadcom 700MHz ARM11 (ARM 6 Arch) SoC. In fact its that very reason it was used.. its older tech.. older tech = cheaper tech. Raspberry Pi Foundation has recently said they are looking at new models but it wont be released any time soon. but again its not intended to be state of the art. and besides.. its $25/35 who cares if you have to buy a new one in a couple years. in the world of these embedded boards they will all be out of date in a couple years

The BBB does infact have a graphical desktop. the built-in eMMC with the stock Angstom Linux will boot, by default, to a Gnome desktop.. stock.. if you load Debian and boot from a uSD card you can load LXDE just like the Pi. I am not sure if Ubuntu (Linaro) is running on the BBB i never looked)

They are not slower per say but they are larger.. larger to download, larger to update, etc.. and waste valuable space on the uSD card. And again as i have stated its nothing to slap on a $15 wifi dongle to any of these if they dont have it, and download whatever is missing.

If you goal is an open source ARM based Linux Desktop, then RaspPi is out, because its not OSHW as noted above..
That leaves you with PCDuino (lite/v1/v2), Beaglebone/black at a reasonable price. The PCDuino has Arduino headers and can emulate Arduino code to give you some arduino compatibility. The headers on the lite and v1 do not match up with shields, but there is an adapter. The v2 has the wifi and they changed the headers to match the Arduino R3 pinout form factor. So this will give you better Arduino 'like' functionality, but its really linux emulated.

If you are going to look at the UDOO/lite/dual/quad, keep in mind you are getting a lot more power on the linux side and you are get a true 32-bit Arduino Due (clone) mated with the linux board. As much as i would like to see you go for the UDOO, it seems like more than what you need, but if you want something that will last you a while and give you almost endless options then its a great options, just keep in mind its new and a lot of the software/OS stuff is being sorted out and optimized.

I hope this helps with your decision, please let me know if there are more questions.

 

I guess most of us don't get the desire to have no wifi, no bluetooth, no nothing, but on the flip side be so hell bent on "FUll Desktop" (and again, what YOU consider a full desktop might be very different than what the next person would...) Why would you remove that stuff? Is there something about the environment that you do stuff in that requires that?

 

hi delba,

i just checked in the actual 1.3-image...
but i don't find xbmc anywhere - the movie-player installed appears to be Totem Movie player 2.26.2.

There is a sound-recorder too, but xbmc? is that a typo or is it a plan for 1.4?

 

yea i think thats a typo, i dont beleive XBMC is in the 1.3 image

 

mkopack wrote: "Exactly. While these can be used as lightweight desktops, they are NOT meant to be anywhere near as powerful or extensive as your typical Linux desktop system. They can be used as such in a pinch, but that's not the point of these small SOC ARM boards."

Power should not be top priority in the light that there are known backdoors in processors and motherboards. Unfortunately, few people read online news. Newspapers and TV news don't cover this. Since 2011, Intel has embedded a secret ARM processor and 3G in its processor even if it does not have VPro. ww.infowards.com/91497/

I have reason to believe prior to 2011, Intel embedded a secret ARM processor and bluetooth. I would elaborate on this but do not want to be accused of trolling.

TPM has a backdoor. www.bgr.com/2013/08/21/microsoft-window ... back-door/ -

It is hypocritical to support open source software and open source hardware only regarding hobbies and other "projects" and continue to use x86 machines.

I am solely using open source hardware. Open source hardware developers should adequately describe their operation systems. If there is only a minimalist desktop, they should make this loud and clear so users don't buy their hardware, install the OS and be extremely disappointed. For example beaglebone black users are disappointed linaro ubuntu is not a graphical desktop, there is no full desktop of any OS for the BBB and wifi does not work.

Thank you for recommending the pcarduino2 as having a full desktop. I will look into this.

Even the raspberry pi which has the most community support seems to ignore pibang which is the only OS that has a full desktop. Pibang should be included in NOOBS. Yesterday, at the Pi Masters meetup group in Washington, DC I learned that Kali for pi is not the full Kali for x86. Kali for pi is a minimalistic desktop. However, Kali's forum does not disclose this. Instead the forum just complains about HDMI, wifi and IP tables module being broken.

Perhaps FreeBSD for pi is also a strip down version? Reviews on operating systems for arm devices are inadequate. Possibly because the authors have the same views as the members of this udoo forum. That ARM devices are not going to be used as desktops despite lapdocks being available. Ignorance is not bliss. Recognize the need for open source hardware. Otherwise, continue to grant Intel, Microsoft, the State and crackers the easy undetectable method of backdoor hardware cracking.

 

mkopack wrote: "I guess most of us don't get the desire to have no wifi, no bluetooth, no nothing, but on the flip side be so hell bent on "FUll Desktop" (and again, what YOU consider a full desktop might be very different than what the next person would...) Why would you remove that stuff? Is there something about the environment that you do stuff in that requires that?"

The packages I listed for a full desktop is in every full desktop. They are not different from what others would consider as a full desktop. I will repeat the packages: text editor, Abiword or libreoffice, PDF viewer, image viewer, archive manager, system monitor, disk utility and/or gparted, scanning package, printer and scanner drivers, wifi drivers, browser, firewall GUI and xIRC chat.

Bluetooth and wifi have a MAC address. Mac addresses can and are geolocated and can be geostalked. The option to turn off Bluetooth is flawed. Bluetooth's MAC address remains visible and vulnerable to cracking. Since 2007, Flame malware co-developed by USA and Israel used Bluetooth to cyberstalk and transmit data.

www.fastcompany.com/ 1838779/ flame-skype-sniffing-bluetooth-enabled-super-spy-tool-harbinger
www.computerworld.com/s/article/9227671/
www.arstechnica.com/ security/ 2012/ 06/ spy-softwares-bluetooth-capabilty-allowed-stalk-of-iranian-victims/ -

PC's wifi's MAC address, even when not connected to the internet, is visible by nearby smartphones, tablets and PCs. They use Kismet to transmit the nearby MAC addresses of all wifi devices to Apple, Google, Microsoft and Skyhook. These corporations "share" the geolocation of wifi devices that they capture with the State, private investigators, information brokers, etc. The are at risk of crackers gaining access to the data. All wifi devices includes not just routers, but PCs, tablets and smartphones.

news.cnet.com/ 8301-31921_3-57324766-281/ removing-your-wi-fi-network-from-googles-map/
www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ sociopolitica/ sociopol_win-micro-gates09.htm
samy.pl/androidmap
www.searchterms.com/blog/privacy/googles-web/
news.cnet.com/ 8301-31921_3-20086489-281/ microsoft-curbs-wi-fi-location-database/ -

If you want more articles, ask.

 

It seems that this has gotten off topic from the original discussion. If you are creating your own terms to state that a full desktop is one that has every type of word processor, editor, media player, browser, plug-ins, drivers, etc. that you would need right out of the box without ever plugging the device in online... Than UDOO is by no means a "full desktop".

UDOO was never intended to be a device for an average user to buy and expect a full PC out of the box. Most anyone that even knows what the UDOO is or knows how to find this site is a hardware/software enthusiast and interested in projects in some way or another. There is simply no reason what-so-ever to include all these additional programs to the device, and it is a waste of space. It is actually easier for any user to install what they need on a 4-8gb card, than it would be to have the devs creat a 16gb+ image that includes everything anyone might need.

That being said, people have already given very easy instructions on how to set the UDOO up for the needs you specified; just install the packages and disconnect the internet/network hardware when you are done. There is no worry of being "cracked" or otherwise. There is no built in Bluetooth that keeps a hidden connection in the board, and the WiFi chip in the UDOO Dual/Quad can be physically removed if you fear that someone might have a chance at activating it after you turn it off.

You wont need a computer nerd to get the Linaro up and running the way you want it, and if you just post any questions you have or troubles you encounter, plenty of people on this forum would be glad to show you exactly how to get any given program up and running.

No need to worry about hidden conspiracies in this topic. However true or false they may be, its just not relevant to the situation you are asking for. Honestly, if you are still having issues deciding if UDOO is for you after this, I'll have to take you for a troll.. But best of luck, and let us know if you buy an UDOO!

 

SoundChaos exaggerated: "If you are creating your own terms to state that a full desktop is one that has every type of word processor, editor, media player, browser, plug-ins, drivers, etcf. that you would need right out of the box without ever plugging the device in online. . ."

I didn't request every type of word processor. I requested Abiword OR LibreOffice. I didn't request a media player, though all linux desktop distros have one. I didn't request plug-ins.

Earlier I wrote that I use large linux distros that have almost all the packages I need preinstalled. Korora, Knoppix, PCLinuxOS Full Monty, Ultimate Edition and BackBox. I use live DVDs that are checksummed. I don't plug the device in online to download packages.

SoundChaos invalidated all the reasons I gave for a full desktop: "There is simply no reason what-so-ever to include all these additional programs to the device and it is a waste of space." Memory is extremely cheap. The price difference between a 4 GB and a 8 GB SD card is trivial. Likewise, with a 8 GB and a 16 GB SD card.

Another reason, if it is not obvious in my prior messages, is that a full desktop image can easily be checksummed. If the image is corrupted or tampered, it can be deleted and a new image downloaded. Checksumming a minimalist desktop barely helps and is insignificant. I won't be able to checksum the packages I would be forced to download because they are not preinstalled. Nor could I checksum the "finished full desktop" as there is no image to compare it to.

SoundChaos misrepresented "It is actually easier for any user to install what they need on a 4-8 GB card, then it would be to have the devs create a 16 GB+ image that includes everything anyone might need." Why would it be more complex for developers to preinstall packages than for users to install the packages? The large live linux DVDs I use on x 86 machines are less than the 4.7 GB limit of DVDs. Where do you get 16 GB? Nonetheless, 16 GB SD cards don't cost much more than 8 GB SD cards.

SoundChaos advised "wifi chip can be physically removed." First, I would need to identify the wifi chip. Are there schematics and close up photographs with readable numbers and letters to enable identification? The wifi chip is embedded. I would need to purchase a solder gun. I would risk over heating the motherboard and short circuiting it. This month, I bricked a laptop by accidentically short circuiting the motherboard when I reinserted a hard drive while the laptop was on. This month, I bricked another laptop by accidentically touching the soldered CMOS battery. BIOS error message: "CMOS checksum bad." Laptop stopped booting. I couldn't go into BIOS.

SoundChaos: "No need to worry about hidden conspiracies" I consider this an insult and am requesting an apology.